Nicolas Sarkozy
Pope arrives in Paris on politicised visit
Friday 12 September 2008
On his maiden visit to France as pope, Benedict XVI was greeted by French President Nicolas Sarkozy. Speakingly fluently in French, he pronounced Sarkozy's concept "positive secularism" a "beautiful expression".
Friday 12 September 2008
By Thomas Hubert (text)/ H.Frade and F.Cameron (video)Also read: The Catholic Church through the eyes of a young priest
Pope Benedict XVI arrived at 11am in
The pontiff, aged 81, walked down the aircraft stairs in brisk steps to join the presidential couple and Paris Archbishop André Vingt-Trois, who chairs the conference of French bishops.
On his four-day visit, the leader of the Catholic Church has a busy schedule. After a meeting with Sarkozy at the Elysée palace, he is due to address cultural representatives at the recently refurbished Collège des Bernardins in the afternoon.
"Positive secularism"
At a press conference after his meeting with the pope, Sarkozy renewed his call for "positive secularism" – an expression he coined during his visit to Rome last December to allow religion to play a greater role in public life. The notion had attracted virulent criticism in France, where a 1905 law strictly separates church and state.
Sarkozy said that "democracy cannot content itself with relying on arithmetic vote counts" and stated that "a dialogue with religions is appropriate in a democracy and respects secularism." He added: "It would be madness to do without it."
The French president also stressed the importance of "human dignity" when dealing with economic or scientific choices. On those issues, he told Benedict XVI: "Our duty is to listen to what you have to tell us."
Speaking effortlessly in French, the pope welcomed "positive secularism" as a "beautiful expression."
"In this historic moment, when cultures are getting more and more intertwined, I am deeply convinced that a new reflection on the true meaning and importance of secularism has become necessary," he said.
Taking a stance on social issues, Benedict XVI said it was "possible to find just solutions" to problems such as the growing gap between the rich and the poor. "It is up to the State to legislate to eradicate injustice," he added.
According to Cardinal Poupard, the Pope's special envoy to Lourdes, Benedict XVI is worried that "there is something broken between faith and reason."
"One of his great preoccupations - and Paris is an exceptional place to say it again - is that there is in fact a deep alliance between faith and reason," he said in an interview with FRANCE 24.
Bernard Lecomte, author of Benoît XVI : le dernier pape européen (Benedict XVI: Europe's last pope), has the same approach: "The purpose of the Pope is to say: 'If you leave God out, you are heading for a precipice'," he told FRANCE 24, adding: "On that point, Benedict XVI and Nicolas Sarkozy are pretty much in agreement."
"He speaks like a grandfather would to his grandchildren"
Friday evening, the pope is scheduled to give a vespers service at the Cathedral of Notre Dame and address young people outside the church.
Bernard Lecomte told
Large crowds are expected to attend Benedict XVI's mass on the Invalides open-air plaza in
There, he is expected to mix less formally with the faithful, using less spectacular decorum than John Paul II did when he travelled to
According to Dominique Chivot, author of numerous books on the Vatican, the pope will try to make himself known in France. "How will Benedict XVI seduce the French? We know he is a rather shy man and this is a real issue for him," Chivot told FRANCE 24.
Although 200,000 people are expected to attend each of his masses, and despite the Pope and the president's joint efforts to restore what Cardinal Poupard calls "fundamental values," the influence of the French Catholic Church keeps declining. "France has ceased to be the eldest daughter of the Church a long time ago," Lecomte said. According to the front page of the French daily Libération, Benedict XVI's visit is therefore best described in two words: "Mission impossible."
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REPORT
Pope Benedict XVI vs John Paul II (Report: F2/ F.Villeminot)
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COLLEGE DES BERNARDINS
A jewel of the Middle Ages revamped in Paris (Report: N. Ransom 04/09)
Vidéo
Pour aller plus loin
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16/09/2008 15:23:26 Alert a moderator
Divorced Catholics
By monica - Sun Lakes, Az.
What exactly did the Pope say about divorced Catholics? Is he saying that even if you have not re-married, you should not be in good standing in the Church? If you have re-married, you are ex-communicated?
14/09/2008 20:19:39 Alert a moderator
Salam
By Lena - Los Angeles, CA
Relax people, Catholicism is not going to make a huge comeback in France. Just look at the virginity annulments, trial suspension for Ramadan observance, and growing number of hijabs in major French cities. Is this Catholicism, no!!! France with its burgeoning Muslim population will change certainly, and you can kiss laicite good-bye.
14/09/2008 17:51:40 Alert a moderator
Pope Benedict xvi, Politicized Visit
By Jack Power - Dublin Ireland
Peadar nobody is asking anyone to give up their Religeon. However The Religeous should stay in their Box and not try to interfere where it is not wanted. We had to many Years of that in Ireland, with John Charley Mc Quaid as an example. Mr Sarkozy should be told where to go, and put in his little Box as well. The Pope should stick to what he is good at Religeon and not try to Dictate. The Clerics like a bit of Power and every so often they try and have a go in Ireland ,and there are a lot of Irish Politicians still paying Lip Service to them.
14/09/2008 17:50:01 Alert a moderator
pope speech
By redtom -
lets get this straight, a man in a dress and silly hat who believes he is gods main man on earth, tells the gullable hoards to turn away from wealth etc etc. 1. catholic church = massive wealth. 2. catholic church responsible for millions of innocents dying through 3. no contraception=overbreeding/food shotages/poverty/death. look at the state of south america poverty everywhere except for the nice shiny church. throughout history it has murdered (inquisition), allied with the enemy(nazi gold etc, as well as turning a blind eye to the extermination of jews). the catholic church is nothing more than a form of social control(think about it). they take your money(has anyone ever gone to church and come out financially richer?) NO. all you get is a person telling you your all bad and your going to hell, thanks a lot. the french will love the pope because he is german and thats what most of the french are GERMAN(they had a really good thing going on in the war). the catholic church is above the law of any country, look at all the pedeophiles that have been caught and never stood trial. this is nothing more than patronising bile, ever wondered how much money is made from the pope on tour? bought a nodding mary or a bleeding heart whatever! wake up and have a free life, aurevoir my little cheese eating surrender monkeys !!!
14/09/2008 14:37:06 Alert a moderator
Common sense and religion go hand in hand.
By K.V.Tellis - Canada
Look around you today and what do you see? We have pharisees like Pat Robertson, who falsely claims that GODD talks to him, then turns around and says the President Hugo Chaves Frias of Venezuela should be assassinated. But Pat Roberson goes even further in his insanity. He claims that God told him that he chose George W. Bush. This man does not need a church nut any asylum, the sooner the better.
Too many who claim to serve Y'shua are servants of the Devil. The false preachers that are on radio or TV, are only there to lighten your bank account with your donations, by which they can live in STYLE. Let those who claim to follow the Master, put ashes on their faces, dress in home-spun clothes and truly practice the teachings of Y'shua. God is not only for Sundays, but for every day of your life, so be a Christian every day, not just on Sunday.
As for those politicians who live in High Style, they serve not God but their own foilbles, live like KINGS and tell the People that they should live on less. What a bunch of frauds. Get rid of these politicians and elect only those that swear to really serve humanity. Right now, the world is being taken for a ride by CRIMINALS who pose as our politicians, but do not do one days work in all the time that they are in office. Give them the busms rush come election time.
As for those who now seek the White House, they too are the servants of the corporate masters of America. When the ordinary people of America vote, they give away their rights to the corporations that keep them in penury. Break free People of America, tell John McCain and Obama H. Barack that you no longer want front men for your country, but those who are elected to serve the people, not the CORPORATIONS. Make your vote count by getting rid of rthese facades.
14/09/2008 10:24:51 Alert a moderator
If you leave God out,you are heading for the precipice
By Irish Catholic: Peadar Mac Oscair - Dublin
Jack Power relishes the loss of authority by the Irish church. Many, especially in Dublin, no longer recognise any external moral authority to guide and teach their consciences. Now we have pervasive drug taking, promiscuity, STDs, murder on a daily basis in Dublin alone which was unheard of 30 years ago. Surely Jack Power could concede that the phenomenal rises in these vices might have had some connection with the fall in religious practice? Were the Irish not a more pleasant people 30 years ago?
Remember St. Francis de Sales when he said that only those who want to be scandalised by the Church will be scandalised. In 33 AD Jesus had Judas and we have had at least one every year since!
13/09/2008 21:46:00 Alert a moderator
antiAmericanism
By antiAmerican -
"TV is filled with religious fanatics who support invading other countries in the name of GOD."
Really? Since when? Do you have any SOURCES? FACTS? or ANY KIND of PROOF? I don't hear you complaining about those who call for "JIHAD" against the ENTIRE western culture! You're saying a lot more about you with the things you don't seem to have a problem with than you realize. lol
"One of them will more than likely be our new vice president."
HOPEFULLY!
"Murder, trial shows, and crime programs fill our homes."
lol. I hate to tell you pal,but CSI is a HUGELY popular show in France where you "claim" to spend time to "bathe in real democracy and freedom as often as you can."
lol. So, what's your point?
"People have become sheep."
As opposed to who? Those you stay SILENT about? Those who try to BLOW US UP? Including WOMEN and CHILDREN? THOSE people?
"Do not let a thrice-married man tell you how to observe GOD."
Don't tell the French how to vote "AMERICAN." They're FREE to ELECT who they will.
"We are supposed to have separation of church and state and we haven't, not really."
No, really WE DO.
"Eisenhower put GOD on our money in in the pledge of allegiance and it's been a down hill slide since."
Says who? you? MILLIONS of people disagree.
"There are churches on every corner, yet we have the most people incarcerated per capita in the world."
What dos one thing have to do with the other? You're not making sense unless you're a communist here only to slander The United States.
13/09/2008 21:41:00 Alert a moderator
AntiAmericanism
By anAmerican -
"We preach LIFE and have the death penalty."
WE don't preach ANYTHING. The federal government has LAWS. Those laws are passed by a DEMOCRATICALLY elected CONGRESS and SENATE, by a SOVEREIGN people, if you don't like it, you're FREE to LEAVE.
"Many die who are not guilty."
Says who?
"We preach GOD AND LIFE and invade a sovereign nation"
Who threaten OUR SOVEREIGN NATION....and?
"torture and murder hundreds of thousands to bring them democracy when we lose more freedoms everyday" Do you have proof of this nonsense? Or is this just more generalized anti-American spittle?
"and have illegal rigged or stolen elections."
Again, do you have PROOF of this, or are you just a poor LOSER in the ELECTORAL process ?
13/09/2008 19:31:00 Alert a moderator
Popes speeches in full.
By Stephen -
Check the Vatican website http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/index.htm. Some of his talks are already posted. Good Luck!!!
13/09/2008 15:39:36 Alert a moderator
Separation of church and state-money, power and the POPE.
By Anonyme - usa
The people of France should visit America. We are supposed to have separation of church and state and we haven't, not really. Eisenhower put GOD on our money in in the pledge of allegiance and it's been a down hill slide since. We are a country of excess. There are churches on every corner, yet we have the most people incarcerated per capita in the world. We preach LIFE and have the death penalty, many die who are not guilty. We preach GOD AND LIFE and invade a soveriegn nation, torture and murder hundreds of thousands to bring them democracy when we lose more freedoms everyday and have illegal rigged or stolen elections. If this sounds INSANE try living with it daily. TV is filled with religious fanatics who support invading other countries in the name of GOD. One of them will more than likely be our new vice president. On the other t.v. stations, murder, trial shows, and crime programs fill our homes. People have become sheep. Do not let a thrice married man tell you how to observe GOD we have hundreds of leaders here doing the very same thing. As for the POPE denouncing MONEY and POWER what kind of power does a church have that doesn't have to obey the rule of law when children are raped? ONE BILLION dollars have been spent as hush money all over the world. Power and Money? Why don't billions of people get it? Come to America and find out for yourselves what happens when Church and State are no longer separate. Don't become like us..please. France is my only refuge from this insanity, I come there to bathe in real democracy and freedom as often as I can. mam
13/09/2008 14:54:44 Alert a moderator
Disappointing
By Anonyme -
I, along with many others, have revered France for its staunchly secular values for a very long time. With this turn, my previous high regard of Sarkozy has plummeted. The world needs a country like France to show that policy should be made on the basis of rationality and ideals that are unfettered by religious dogma. Just look at the USA, where there is a chance of getting a creationist Vice President. Is this the kind of development we want in European countries?
13/09/2008 06:33:00 Alert a moderator
Why this hatefulness?
By mohed ghazi -
I want to ask something : Why this pope is so violent towards Islam and Muslims opposite the one who was before ? Is the world need for more violent reactions . Christianity and Islam both suffer enough under the black history. The pope who was before was so lovable and all Muslims were love him
Note : I don't agree that the government should be separate exactly from the religion, we need more values from religions each area from her own one.
http://howarabsthink.blogspot.com/
13/09/2008 04:03:27 Alert a moderator
Pope Benedict xvi, Politicized Visit
By Anonyme Jack Power - Dublin,Ireland
Restoring Fundamental Values, No Thanks Ireland Suffered under Roman Catholic Fundamental Values as soon as the Ink was dry on the Treaty of Independance in 1921 until 1970- 1980. The Government signed an Agreement with the RC Church given them a Special Relationship with each other to carry out their Business in Accordance with the Ethos of Catholicism. The Government used this as a Lever to Control the People, and when anybody Complained about the Conditions in the Country they always got the Church on their side.The Church always interfered in Government and Dictated to anyone who tried to bring in Laws for the good of the Community.They waved the big Finger at the People and threatened them with Hell Fire and Damnation if they Attempted to Vote for someone they did not like. This kept the Country very backward, no divorce, or Contraception allowed Legally. People had to go overseas to get a Divorce and get Contraceptives. This led to Mass Demonstrations for Divorce Legislation, and People Declaring to bring Contraceptives on the Train from Belfast to the Republic of Ireland. With the Result that Customs Men Searched the Women and Seized the Contraceptives and Arrested the Women in the 1970ties. This is all changed now, and People just make their own decisions now.The changes was forced on the Government by the People who were just sick of all the interferance of Church and State. Not to mention all the Paedophile Activity of the Clerics which was carried out in Orphanages and Industrial Schools, This was the final Death of the Control of Power of the Church and State in Ireland .I certainly would not like to see a return to those Days. The French People are right to keep the Roman Catholic Church interfering in matters of State, they like a bit of Power always have.
12/09/2008 15:28:04 Alert a moderator
Religion and the State
By Gerald Sibanda - Bulawayo, Zimbabwe
Those who made laws to separate the state from religion did so out of experience, -terrible experience indeed at the hands of the same church which France is marvelling after. Who has changed here, the church or France? I bet you its France because the Catholic church has not renounced her past nor has she any remorse for it. Given the chance(which she will soon get) she will do more to France and to the rest of the world than what she did in the middle ages. She has not regretted the Inquisition and and proudly defends it as being necessary for the time Soon or later liberty of conscience will be taken away from the French by the same institution they are rolling out the red carpet for. This vist is to taste how short is the memory of the Fench!!
12/09/2008 11:23:40 Alert a moderator
Christianity and the soceity
By DOMSHAK ISAAC - KADUNA STATE, NIGERIA
It is in the context of our society today to have plan and enlighten the society of the great value of Christianity, it is in this light that we can have a pure, industrious, and patriotic indigenous citizens that can bring unity and progress in our local community, state and the national level at large. It is the responsibility of our leaders to direct and motivate the society about this great life changing as in the like of "Pope Benedict the XVI" and others. Stays in the foundation of God plan for mankind for greater upliftment of our society.
12/09/2008 11:23:00 Alert a moderator
re pope visit
By Anonyme joseph walker - sherborne dorset uk
How times have changed ,since most of the terriorty of france was giving to them with the previous pope blessings.ie Phillip King of france at the time.regarding religion and society ,politicans have made sure religion isnt one of its subjects or encouraged ,religion contradicts all the tosspots in govt ,well money greed and power.thier commandements.which incidently is only two ,money and power and its accumulation.