football - World Cup
Boos against the Marseillaise spark heated debate in France
Wednesday 15 October 2008
“Anyone who boos the Marseillaise just should not be in France!” wrote one Internet user. But for researcher Christophe Bertossi: "Just because these youths reject the Marseillaise doesn’t mean they hate France."
Wednesday 15 October 2008
By Lorena Galliot (text) / Fiona Cameron (video)What do you think of the booing of the Marseillaise? Is it anti-French sentiment, or just rowdy fans? If you were at the match Tuesday night, please contact us by clicking 'React' below. Don't forget to tell us where you are from, and how we can reach you.
A warm autumn evening in Paris’s Stade de France, the UFO-like landmark French stadium. Two teams : France and Tunisia, invited for a friendly game. Sixty thousand spectators, including many French youths of Tunisian or North-African descent. All in all just another ordinary football game. Only it wasn’t.
Things went sour even before the game started, when loud boos and jeers nearly covered the voice of the young Franco-Tunisian singer performing the French national anthem. Afterwards, all through the game, incessant catcalls targeted Hatem Ben Arfa, born in France to Tunisian parents, who opted to play for his birth country despite overtures from the Tunisian Federation.
The next day, every French politician in the arena had something to say about the game. Strongly condemning these “scandalous incidents”, French president Nicolas Sarkozy promptly summoned the French Football Federation Jean-Pierre Escalettes and demanded that in the future, all games where the national anthem is booed be immediately suspended. Meanwhile, Interior Minister Michèle Alliot Marie demanded that last night’s offenders be indentified and sanctioned. In France, insulting the Marseillaise is a criminal offence.
“It’s like watching a competition between your father and your mother”
Skander Gafsi, a 27-year-old French citizen of Tunisian descent, was at the game yesterday. “It’s never easy when there is a game opposing France and Tunisia” he told FRANCE 24. “Most spectators for this type of game are Franco-Tunisian, and it’s like watching a competition between your father and your mother. It’s tough!”
Gafsi sang both hymns and “felt bad for Ben Arfa and Benzema”, Tunisians on the French team especially targeted by boos. “I don’t agree with the catcalls, but I understand why they did it”, he says. “These are people whose voice is never heard, except once every three years at a football game. They feel the need to speak out.”
Others go even further in the reactions they posted on FRANCE 24's website : “This incident reminds me of the Muslim uproar over the blasphemous caricatures of Mohammed last year. Sacred symbols were disrespected, so some Muslims feel the need to take revenge”, wrote one anonymous contributor from Tanger, in Morocco.
The incident has sparked a harsh debate in France, however, and not everyone sympathizes with the booing supporters. “If these guys aren’t happy, they should just hand in their passport,” Lyes Ben Chedli, President of the Association of Friends of the Mediterranean Union told FRANCE 24. “I think the boos are a question of lack of education and lack of integration. I fully agree with the government’s reaction: this type of attitude requires a strong response and appropriate sanctions.”
“Anyone who boos the Marseillaise should not be in France”
This view is widely echoed by dozens of readers who reacted to the incident on France 24’s website. “Anyone who boos the Marseillaise just should not be in France. We never asked them to come!” wrote one. A comment viewed as inacceptable by Christophe Bertossi, Director of the Migration Programme at the French Institute of International Relations. “We shouldn’t confuse the symbol and what the symbol represents. Just because these youths reject the Marseillaise doesn’t mean they hate France. The people who booed the anthem are just as probably proud of their French passport,” Bertossi told FRANCE 24.
The problem, according to Bertossi, lies in the archaism of anthems as a symbol. “In France, as in other European countries, we’re searching for national identity symbols to cling on to in a globalised world. The problem is, these symbols are no longer relevant in today’s society, which is increasingly multicultural.”
Asked to comment the government’s reaction to the incident, Bertossi was hesitant. “I can’t say whether the measures announced are too much or too little. I can only wonder : is it really the State’s role to decide whether to suspend a football game, or is it the referee’s ? Can the state control everything?”
The incident is yet another reminder of the unrest and discontent that is widespread among immigrant communities in an around the French capital. It will certainly give extreme white wing partisans more to fuss about. “Even though I didn’t boo during the game, I’m sure that in the eyes of some I’ll be tainted by this incident,” said Gafsi with a hint of bitterness. As another anonymous commentator pinpointed on FRANCE 24, France is still “very far from encouraging peaceful cohabitation between its different communities.”
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20/10/2008 06:52:50 Alert a moderator
Is it to be France or North Africa?
By Jeremy - El Cajon, California
As an American, what I'd really like to know is whether or not the so called "French" believe in blood and soil, or if they've given in to bedeviled social scientists ushering in "the end of the world as we know it?" The French must attempt some self preservation here and ask themselves whether or not they wish to exist, or be crushed underfoot by an unstoppable wave of peoples from North Africa and the Middle East. To do so is not racist, rather it is survivalist. Do you want to live or die; that may make it more plain for you. Booing the French national anthem is only the very beginning of what will be your undoing. That's okay though, California will be happy to take you in, we love French cuisine out here. So when France becomes just another slum provence of some despotic Islamic country from whom my country buys its oil, we'll welcome you to our yankee subculture, it isn't so bad really.
Jeremy
20/10/2008 02:24:34 Alert a moderator
The booing of 'La Marseillaise' not at all funny
By Anonyme, - Canada
While it is very rude for anyone to boo a National Anthem, it is not a hard and fast rule to expect that everyone thinks the same.
In Canada, one hears how the Quebecois/Quebecoise quite often boo the National Anthem O Canada, because being separatists they do not accept it as their National Anthem. Of course that also applies to the Canadian Maple Leaf flag that has been desecrated time and time again by separatists in Quebec, who at times have torn or trampled upon it in disrespect. So, depending on the society one lives in, one should expect anything. While I am not condoning this sacrilege, I have realized that some people have no class at all.
Canada ha its deadbeats in the separatists, just as France has in these rowdy hooligans that boo the National Anthem.
18/10/2008 15:28:13 Alert a moderator
Racist
By Santose -
My wife"who is French" says the Arabs have a right to be racists,but the French dont have the right to be racists,and from what ive seen,I think she is right
17/10/2008 19:49:35 Alert a moderator
Marseillaise
By Michael Smith - UK
Sadly this kind of behaviour has been common in the UK for years and is not restricted to National Anthems either and to find it has spread across the channel is indeed a reason for shame.
I have the honour to be married to a French woman, 90% of my 'family' are now French and in a curious way (for a Briton) I feel more French than English. I love to hear the Marseillaise and turn the sound up full blast at the start of any sporting event which features a French team; it is an action that is not readily appreciated by my neighbours. And why? Because the Marseillaise is probably the most inspiring and joyous celebration of nationhood ever written.
To confuse the vaguaries of sporting achievement (or lack of it) with the respect the anthem calls for deserves condemnation of whichever group the insult emanates from. It is simply unacceptable and I am so pleased to see the Government response.
17/10/2008 06:32:25 Alert a moderator
Booing the national anthem
By Vishal - Houston, TX (born in Bombay, naturalized US citizen).
I think its very wrong and disrespectful to boo your national anthem. People need to respect their national anthem in their own country.
Just 'cause you have complaints about discrimination, etc doesnot mean you go about disrespecting your national anthem.
These people need to get out of France if they cannot even respect (their!! own) national anthem.
17/10/2008 02:04:13 Alert a moderator
Hostile crowd
By Anonyme - France
As someone who attended the match, I can say that the outrageous behavior did not stop with the booing of the Marseillaise. The crowd (70% supporting Tunisia) was downright malicious to the French players for the entire first half. I have never before seen a team playing on its home turf have to deal with such a hostile reception. I can say that halting the game would not have been an extreme response. The Tunisian fans were a complete embarrassment to the game and to their ancestral country.
16/10/2008 00:04:27 Alert a moderator
Is a national anthem just another religious symbol?
By David - USA/Atlanta
It is sad to see the politicians involved in a discussion that should be made without populist intentions. I think that a national anthem should not be protected from being whistled by the law. Just ignore the people that did that or think about their problems. Any claim to exile a person (even inmigrants) just for criticise the goverment using their freedom of speech is just pure fascim. The goverment is not an inquisitor in charge of protecting its own religious symbols. I would be more worried about the danger of physical violence.
16/10/2008 22:15:10 Alert a moderator
Booing the Anthem
By BL@KBIRD - CANADA
Learn to sing the Marseillaise in Arabic.
16/10/2008 19:43:38 Alert a moderator
The Marseillaise
By Eva - US
The Marseillaise is an homage to the people of France and represents the pride, hope. and dreams of a nation. It's sad that some people are too ignorant to respect that fact even if they disagree with the French culture. Perhaps something should be written on those tickets and on billboards prior to these events to indicate whatever sanctions will be imposed (are deemed legal in France) if anyone has over-stepped their boundaries regarding inappropriate behavior. That way everybody will have been warned and there will be no excuses regarding what is expected of the fans.
16/10/2008 17:56:39 Alert a moderator
The French Muslims Hate France
By Steve Real - Columbia/USA
They always complain about Parisians being "rude" in America.
But when I went to Paris
I found the opposite to be true,
except for the foreigners living in France.
They hated the French, they hated us Americans
and even more then the hated us Americans and the French
they hated Parisians the most.
strange but true...
Paris has real problems with intergrating the foriegn Muslims.
I remember chasing this "muslim guy"
up the Avenue des Champs- Élysées
for throwing his garbage on the street
in front of my own eyes.
He was scared I was going to put a beating on him.
(and he should be, because it did cross my mind)
but I was yelling at the dude
"What's wrong with you man?
Come back here an pick your garbage up
you hillbilly slob!"
I should have caught up with him
but mommy and baby were not too happy with me
chasing this cat up the Avenue des Champs- Élysées over garbage,
So I had to back off.
But if I was by myself?
I would have physically drag him back.
and made him pick up his garbage.
Paris isn't the cess pool for Muslim dissidents and
the "Déclaration des Droits de l'Homme et du Citoyen" is not a suicide pact.
good luck Paris
16/10/2008 15:15:52 Alert a moderator
THINK A LITTLE BIT
By Giannis -
First of all I would like to make clear that I do not support or applaud the booing of any national anthem. It's a symbol and should be treated with respect. But when I read some comments like “Anyone who boos the Marseillaise just should not be in France. We never asked them to come!” I feel outerly disgusted. You forget apparently that YOU FRENCH brought these people from your former colonies to build back France after the Second World War. And let's not forget the colonisation of Maghreb and the sub-saharan countries from the French. How many people were killed, tortured, disgraced during the dark years of colonisation. What France is now, she owes it to these countries and its people. The exploitation of the riches of these countries and their people, which goes on till today, has made France the big power that she is today. And all of you who live in the US and speak from a "safe distance", just remember what your country, or your country of origin, has caused to these people, how it is treating them today, and then maybe you would decide not to post the utter nonsence that you have. Thank you all for your time.
16/10/2008 14:02:44 Alert a moderator
Some details
By François - Angers
I have read numerous articles about what happenned during this match but all of them always forget how the FFF (Fédération Française de Football, French Association of Soccer) did a lot of effort for this match. The teams enter in the pitch mixed up! and not the tunisian from one side and the french from another. Each french hold the hand of a young guy wearing the jersey of Tunisia and so on... What do they have to do?!?
I am astonished that it didn't matter to them and booed the anthem...
Something should be done because it's not the first time, during the return matches against italy... The French didn't booed the italian anthem in Paris, but they did in Rome. And I'm not talking about Portugal, Marocco and Algeria. Their reasons are ridiculus and, even if I do agree that France should accept its past mistakes, this was a shame!
16/10/2008 13:26:49 Alert a moderator
Boos to the French anthem
By Anonyme - Paris
As a tourist I have seen the sane thing in my own country and think it is a healthy sign of freedon of expression. Do politicians really think they can control different views being openly stated? It seems the interpretation varies depending whether you think it is anti-French or an expression of frustration.
16/10/2008 13:07:06 Alert a moderator
Jeering the French anthem: who are the 'bad Frenchmen'?
By Anonyme - France
Although I find booing an anthem stupid and despicable, I cannot help thinking that the recent manifestations of a revival of 'traditional values' such as nationalism or religious fervour are not all positive. All this rings disquieting bells, that politicians, and not just the radical ones, are using increasingly. Old people like me know all too well where nationalism invariably leads.
What the recent financial crisis has demonstrated is that Europe is but a façade, and that nationalistic and protectionist 'reflexes' are quick to re-surface.
And to end with, a small question for you: is it worse to jeer the national anthem or to leave the country to evade the taxes that citizens pay for the common good? I wonder who should be deprived of their citizens' rights...perhaps both categories, since they both despise and abuse their country...
16/10/2008 13:03:55 Alert a moderator
It cannot be accepted
By Chris -
Such a behavior cannot be accepted, period. It's an anthem, it's a symbol, it's values: something you respect even if you don't believe in it. What's the use of all those talks about tolerance if giving importance to a flag, an anthem is considered "fascism" ? Booing the Marseillaise or any anthem is like spitting on a flag, it's an insult and a flagrant lack of education.
comparing the game to a fight between your father and your mother might be a good comparison but I'm surprized: it seems to me that I wouldn't spit on any of them... Even if there was one I don't like, I would at least respect both.
And what about that : “These are people whose voice is never heard, except once every three years at a football game. They feel the need to speak out.” To say what ? does anyone understand what they wanted to say ? Why can't they speak and discuss like the rest of us ? Does someone tell them to shut up or do they simply don't know how to properly talk ?
Those acting in such a childish and irrespectuous way can only be seen as uneducated and brainless people. Most of them are not, I know that, so I hope they'll learn to speak respecting the conventions and most importantly, the others. Only then will they be heard, understood and treated accordingly.
16/10/2008 05:23:31 Alert a moderator
French Generosity
By Louis Washington - Lafayette, CA
it has been painful for me to watch my ancestral homeland fall victim to its own generosity. europeans across the globe have become afraid to stand up for themselves. the thugs who boo the french national anthem are not french. they spit on the country that provides free housing and medical care for them. the more that we put up with it, the more they will do it. i am pround to be french american and i am especially proud to see others like me on this site. all real americans know that the name of washington would be meaningless if not for king louis.
16/10/2008 05:16:58 Alert a moderator
reality
By Ezrad Lionel - St.Lucia
You don't get to chose who you are, when or where you are born. People who accept things just because it's widely accepted are useless. More than 99.99999999% of the world is useless.
15/10/2008 00:17:40 Alert a moderator
Do not Dishonor the Integrity of France
By Lt Col Reid Reasor - United States/Colorado Springs
Do not Dishonor the Integrity of France
I‘m a twenty year USAF fighter pilot who is embarrassed by these youth shouting their disrespect for the Marseillaise. Regardless of deep rivalry or intense feeling for competition, there should never be a time to dishonor your host, and disgrace the honor of a nation.
I agree with the negative reaction to these youth as they don’t understand what, and who they’re offending. For two world wars France has stood as the first line of serious resistance to German aggression, the bodies of the French are spread across the continent while fighting for the basic freedom of mankind.
Booing the Marseillaise dishonors the dead and the warriors past who apparently have more character and courage than the shouts of adolescence.
I share the nation’s outrage, and maybe an old warrior from France can sit and explain it to them, if they have the humbleness to listen.
Reid D. Reasor, Lt Col, USAF
15/10/2008 20:58:02 Alert a moderator
Les blues s'impose face à la Tunisie
By Rodrigo Fernandez - France-Paris
I really did not like the booing and the jeering ... but then again we'll always see this kinda stuff in the field ... remember what happened with PSG and the Banderole anti-chtis? ALL NONSENSE we should just let it go and play like pros... so at the end whooooooooooooo cares... France WON... the blues kicked some serious ass out there... Vive la France!
15/10/2008 20:07:17 Alert a moderator
soccer booing
By Jolyon Curran - Santa Barbara, CA
Unfortunately soccer fans are not known for their gentility anywhere in the world.
The action of the fans is perhaps going to be the only public voice of their anger at other problems in life, maybe a way they know will be heard in the government.
France is reknown for it's tolerance, there are far more important things for the government to be dealing with in these days.
Knock it off, there will always be idiots and losers, the best way to deal with cat-calls is to ignore them and concentrate on fixing the pot-holes such as high immigrant unemployment.
15/10/2008 19:07:51 Alert a moderator
National Pride
By B. A Pirozynski - CA, USA
The recent bad behaviour at the Stade de France is perhaps a reason to discontinue all sporting events in an open public arena. The unsporting behaviour of the fans was disgusting. There is no excuse for that type of behaviour. Perhaps all events will need to be shown in a closed environment and televised. It would be a fitting punishment for those that do not know how to control their actions, but also sadly it would punish those that do know how to behave.
For pity's sake it is a sporting event not a potlicial arena and statements such as "the western government bla blah blah" as referend in another comment have no place here. However since some feel it is necessary to place blame on "western governments", which frankly is a meaningless term, they better come up with some reason why "eastern, northern or southern" governments have shown themselves to be better. Lets not forget events in Tibet, Burma, Rwanda, Sudan, China, Georgia etc....
Leave political histrionics at home and let fans enjoy sports and let fans show all players respect and let the fans shut up during the national anthem if they are going to be rude and insulting. It is good to show support for the teams, but a sign of stupidity when this support exceeds sporting behaviour.
15/10/2008 19:01:21 Alert a moderator
Vulgar and Disrespectful
By Anonyme - USA
The whistling and jeering were unnecessary. Those who were jeering ought to have been silent and mindful of the respect that must be given to another country's national anthem. Moreover, they are residents of France and while there are many social/racial issues that they undoubtedly endure, the reality is that France offers them greater opportunity for progress than their home countries. As a daughter of immigrant parents, I am much more Mexican than American, but I recognize that our host country has given us much. They didn't have to sing along or even enjoy it, but they could have been silent.
15/10/2008 18:16:39 Alert a moderator
Shame on them
By Anonyme - France/USA
All these insults make me even prouder to be French. M. President Sarkozy we are behind you!! Please sent all these gangsters to jail or expulse them from France if they do not like it here. Down with the cowards who rote our society. Vive la France forever!!!
15/10/2008 17:41:39 Alert a moderator
Booing
By Anonyme - Washington, DC, US
how disgraceful! I am appalled and once again discouraged by the behavior of people who really ought to know better.
15/10/2008 16:10:27 Alert a moderator
Marseillaise Booing...
By Arthur - USA/Ellensburg
Rudeness, absolute rudeness. Lack of civility at football matches appears to still be the fashion. La laicite was developed to protect the State and individual from dominational religious behavior which adversely effect the nation's political wellbeing. How and what policy can be developed which cultivates responsibility with those who are notoriously abusive of public freedom? Simultaneously, while this behavior is boorish, the seamy side of emerging nationalism and racism exhibited by those who seek refuge and opportunity within the borders of a country whose anthem they criticize, needs additional exposure, examination and response so that it disappears and becomes a trademark outside the borders by those who do not value civilization. My response is not an issue of reactive nationalism, it is a defense of law and self-determination of individuals who group together in order to form a dynamic and beneficial society.
15/10/2008 14:32:21 Alert a moderator
national pride
By Anonyme.joseph walker - sherborne dorset uk.
Well what do you expect,western goverments have lost all moral creditability,a society brought up on a culture of garbagge ,garbagge becomes the culture.one just has to look at what its society is so engrossed in,it is the media morons subjecting the masses with irrelevant and ignorance.dont ask the young generation ,they just victims,ask you grandparents and older generation.,obivisouly present day goverments are devoid of this situation or just lacking intelligence.