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Latest update: 28/07/2011
- discrimination - diversity - France
French minority advocates call for statistics on diversity
After a week-long trip to Washington, D.C., to study how the US handles ethnic diversity, a group of 10 French minority advocates have come home with a message: it’s time for France to compile statistics on its increasingly diverse population.
By Rachel HOLMAN (text)
After a week-long trip to the United States, ten members of France’s ANELD, an advocacy group representing elected local officials from ethnic and religious minorities, have returned home with a message: it’s time for France to compile statistics on its ethnically diverse population.
ANELD deals with issues related to ethnic diversity in France, including employment, equal rights and discrimination. Its members are elected officials in the suburbs of Paris, mainly of North African origin.
During their stay in Washington, D.C., the French delegation met with members of civil rights organisations like the National Urban League and Rev. Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow PUSH Coalition, as well as numerous other representatives from both the public and private sectors.
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The trip, which was largely funded by the French-American Foundation and the American Embassy, was geared toward studying how the US has dealt with challenging issues related to ethnic diversity within its own borders.
According to Leila Leghmara, ANELD’s treasurer and a trip participant, some of the American representatives they met with were surprised to learn that France does not keep statistics on its different ethnic populations.
“In the US they have statistics, which is something that is forbidden here [in France]”, she said. “Some people couldn’t understand that there were no statistics in France, so we had to explain”.
‘Liberté, égalité, fraternité’
France – a country whose motto famously advocates liberty, equality and fraternity – has traditionally been loath to classify its citizens by ethnic categories. Ethnic statistics are forbidden by the country's constitution and frowned upon as a way of forcing people to identify with a set ethnic group.
However, critics say these numbers are necessary given the country's increasingly diverse ethnic landscape. According to ANELD members, statistics on France’s different ethnic groups could help combat feelings of discrimination.
It is not the first time the issue has arisen over the past decade. The controversy over ethnic statistics last surfaced in 2009, when French President Nicolas Sarkozy appointed the Committee for the Measurement of Diversity, arguing that efforts to help minorities were hampered by a lack of data, and that he wanted to find a way to "measure the diversity of society."
The committee immediately drew strong criticism from anti-discrimination groups, academics and opposition politicians. Its report, published in April 2010, called for a "critical and responsible use of statistics" in combating discrimination, but stopped short of advocating the compilation of ethnic statistics.
Members of ANELD have since breathed fresh life into the debate. As Leghmara points out, their call for statistics comes at a time when questions of national identity and secularism have emerged as hot-button issues in the French political arena.
“[The members of ANELD] are all from different political parties – left-wing, right-wing and green – but we are all in agreement on the fact that the debates on secularism and national identity are contributing to breaking our society…These debates don’t help create a cohesive French society,” Leghmara said.
She added, “If we want to improve the situation of minorities in France, we have to be able to evaluate it…One way to create awareness is to show people the numbers”.
ANELD’s vision of breaking down French society into numbers has been quickly dismissed by the president of France’s High Council on Integration (Haut Conseil à l’Integration or HCI), Patrick Gaubert, who issued a statement on July 22 saying, “For the HCI, there is no need to count French citizens or residents by the community they belong to and/or racial categories to fight against discrimination”.
Uphill battle
Kamel Hamza, ANELD's president, said that even on a purely observational level, the trip to Washington D.C. left him with the impression that the US was years ahead of France when it came to dealing with diversity.
“The person who greeted us from the Foreign Affairs department was an African American and his assistant was white. In France it’s usually the other way around. It really surprised us”, Hamza said.
“In France it’s possible [for people of different ethnicities to obtain high level positions] but only with the support of the right person. That’s the problem with France’s minorities – they don’t have access to the same networks as other groups”, he continued.
Hamza went on to describe an experience he had as a young man when he felt as though he had been discriminated against because of his ethnic background.
“The first time I went to a job interview, I was forced to justify my ethnic background. I had to go with my diploma from school, and prove that I was just like everyone else – that I wasn’t lazy or a delinquent,” he said. “There are two solutions to this problem – either you kill yourself or you decide to prove that you’re stronger – that you’re going to work three times as hard as anyone else”.
Leghmara says she feels as though her group has succeeded in some measure by reviving the issue as a serious debate, though she acknowledges that statistical data on France’s ethnic populations are still a long way off.
Members of ANELD are due to meet with the French commissioner for equal opportunities, Yazid Sabeg, on Monday to discuss a possible census. They say they plan to raise the issue of discrimination as a major topic in France’s forthcoming presidential election.
Echoing a question put to her by people she met on her trip to Washington D.C., Leghmara wondered out loud, “How can we correct or improve the situation if we have no picture of it?”
Photo above: commuters on a train bound for Paris' northern suburbs. © Rachel Holman.
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Comments (16)
Keeping It Real About France, Statistics & Racism
Compiling ethnic statistics will never solve the real problem. Some might find my perspective odd or incredible as a Black American (or, if you prefer, an African American; or American of African and European descent). However, when visiting or living in France, I have no expectation, desire or need that French people have to adjust to me or my culture — though the French have historically accepted Black Americans and our culture when we mutually found similarities and actively shared them. However, if I were truly in need of being culturally accommodated or feeling more comfortable in a Black American or American culture, then staying in the United States — or a similar country — would be my best and most sensible place of residence.
As we have experienced all to often here in America, there is this general expectation or strange sense of entitlement that many (but, not all) immigrants have of the people and country they immigrate to should adjust to them rather than the other way around. Many choose not to respect or learn the culture, people, history, standards or language of their adopted country. Far too many come with their own prejudices and forms of racism — they are not totally innocent or blameless of this age old human behavior. Instead, many immigrants immediately create their own little ghetto replicas of their homeland, and try to live in an alternate ethnic universe separate from the people in the country they came to — then they become frustrated and wonder why they are treated as apart or different.
These ghetto communities soon become an accepted residency and normal lifestyle choice, which soon perpetuates a separate socioeconomic culture and discrimination obstacles that keep them from becoming full and equal members of the society they immigrated to — creating multiple generations of separateness. At the same time, general resentment and resistance by citizens of the adopted nations are predictably created despite subtle, official, or sometimes strong requests to learn and join the new culture.
As such, it is understandable why French citizens and government officials — as elsewhere — will develop problems with effectively and equally integrating immigrants. Over time all types of ethnic-specific socioeconomic difficulties and challenges keep recycling and never get fully resolved. No matter how many ethnic statistics are recorded and reported, the core problem is never solved — the real solution being mandatory cultural integration through comprehensive education and full immersion into the culture and people they chose to live among. Respect for one's original cultural and heritage should not be a justification for creating self-made barriers against the people in their newly adopted nation.
Honestly, let's keep it totally real. Literally every country that immigrants come from have their own set of expectations, demands and prejudices of non-natives or non-citizens coming to live there. Sometimes their prejudices are held against other ethnic or social groups in their birthplace. In some cases, their countries have levels of discrimination that have even generated genocides and long term dysfunctional societies.
Having traveled widely overseas and across America, though being born and raised in Harlem-NYC, I grew up being taught that there are two kinds of people throughout the world when it comes to life and living anywhere: “You're either pretending, or you're participating — complaining or contributing,” according to my parents and grandparents. When visiting France, I will always have the mentality and actions of a participant — through learning French, having a lifelong interest in the past and present culture of France, and perhaps contributing to the vision that France has of its future. Most especially, I operate with no self-serving expectation or sense of entitlement that French people should do something for me that I can accomplish with my own abilities.
Whether it's my home country — or if living in France was my choice — I would prefer to invest by being a participant and a contributor. Anything less would qualify me as being only a transient, a nomad, or a complaining refugee. For me and many more Black Americans — factually rooted in numerous historical and cultural reasons — being socioeconomically and culturally invested in the societies we live in is considered real empowerment rather than perpetuating a victim mentality, or using the false notion ethnic entitlement as a crutch to beat others over the head with.
Surely, France is not entirely an oasis in heaven — but, in relation to most other countries, it is surely not the hell some prefer to complain about or criticize.
Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white
Each society has its own word for HERESY!
Communists called all HERESY! fascism. Fascist Italy called all HERESY Communist.
Today, under the Politically Correct tyranny, HERESY! is called HATE! or “racism.” Nobody wants to try to deal with a point like the one I made, so they start demanding that nobody say it, just like any other tyranny does. They call people who speak HERESY! names.
You Political Correctness fanatics are playing a very old game.
When you call people names who disagree with you or scream Hate or racism, a.k.a., HERESY! it says nothing about the point we heretics make.
But it tells us ALL about YOU.
The Choice is Yours to Make.
There is always that other choice in a democracy that's not often mentioned: Leave. If you think France and the French are that rotten, return to the land of your ancestors and see how much they have advanced on all these lovely issues. Fair enough?
French minority advocates call for statistics on diversity
action and progress must be made to ensure social harmony. Diversity is important and provides a large pool of unique points of view and solutions. But at the core it must remain French and be void of American style racial acronyms like "African-American or Hispanic". I must add that all this America business is deeply disturbing and we must keep in mind that France is a democracy with it's own culture and language. solutions to European challenges will be found in Europe not America and the two are in no way compatible with regards to how the country is run. people. America needs to take care of America and Europe for Europe while maintaining positive relations as good allies. What is important is progress and action more than distracting the public with debates.
Rose tinted glasses!
A 1998 survey on French attitudes to race, commissioned by the French government, showed 38 percent of the population declaring themselves racist, double the figures for Britain and Germany.
In April 2002 Jean-Marie Le Pen, leader of the Front National, an openly racist, far-right party, won over 17 percent of the vote in the first round of the presidential elections. His pary still poses a significant force in French life.
Experts from the UN’s Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination presented a 90-page report on racism in France, the first since 2005.
After the session, the French delegation unexpectedly announced the preparation of a national action plan against racism.
Despite numerous legal instruments, France was facing “a notable resurgence in racism and xenophobia”, Togolese expert Ewomsan Kokou said.
According to US inspector Pierre-Richard Prosper, the resurgence was due to “the absence of true political will”.
The debate covered treatment of traveller communities and the Roma, the debate on national identity, the non-recognition of the rights of minorities and the hardening of political discourse.
Final Words On French Diversity
Finally, with regard to my earlier comments below, I genuinely hope that ANELD observers and the French government don't step backwards and fall prey to analysis paralysis when it comes to ethnic statistics and socioeconomic improvements for all of its citizens.
Statistics unto themselves are just raw numbers that can be manipulated for all sorts of demographic, political, economic, ethnocentric, and even deceptive purposes. Beyond any ethnic statistical numbers, the only thing that really matters at the end of the day is what effective and REAL action will take place to genuinely improve the lives of citizens regardless of their ethnicity.
Again, equal opportunity and Affirmative Action in America is rooted in a far different history and present day reality as it relates to discrimination and injustices against Black Americans and others in the United States. ANELD should not misinterpret their American findings, and then approach or advise a French solution based on narrow and foggy assumptions.
I sincerely hope they will look at the broader and deeper facts of socioeconomic advancement for all French citizens --- no matter what their ehtnicity is --- and then suggest practical and accountable methods to safely float the ship for every passenger. The recent Pew Research Center report (see link below) is a good source start reading.
Again, as an African American (or American of African and European descent), France has been on the right track relative to most nations when it comes to diversity and opportunity. Many others of my ethnic background have experienced that fact for over a century when visiting, residing and contributing our culture in France. Surely, it has not been absolutely perfect for all every moment of the day --- something many non-Black or non-Arab French citizens know as well.
However, upon closer inspection --- and travels to other countries --- most will choose to live in France compared to other places. So, France, count your blessings.
Pew Research Center Report:
http://pewsocialtrends.org/2011/07/26/wealth-gaps-rise-to-record-highs-b...
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/27/cose.wealth.divide.blacks.hispanics/
wheres the love?
Cant we all just get along?? <3
ANELD Observers Must Not Misinterpret U.S. Reality
In the U.S., the proof that gathering ethnic statistics don't make a sustainable impact on socioeconomic improvements for non-Whites is revealed in a recently released Pew Research Center analysis (see links below). Whenever there are contractions and disruptions in the American economy, the ugly truth about ethnic progress is revealed. Blacks and other non-White citizens are still economically disadvantaged in 2011 despite all the known ethnic statistics.
It would be a step backwards for France to believe that having ethnic statistics will enable them to effectively improve the lives of all of its citizens. U.S. politicians and diverse political activists have used all forms of ethnic data to advance narrow agendas or polarize groups in competition with others. Yet, only slow and marginal socioeconomic empowerment has occurred for most Blacks and others citizens of color. Due to numerous competing forces from uncontrolled illegal immigration, instabilities in the U.S. economy, and major failures in our public education system, African Americans still have to step faster and farther just to stay ahead.
No doubt, bigotry and discrimination --- both subtle and overt --- is still practiced throughout various sectors of U.S. society by the minority of social Neanderthals that roam throughout modern America. Even a President Obama can confirm this reality. Fully enforcing current anti-discrimination laws --- regardless of ethnicity or so-called race --- is what effectively holds violators truly accountable in France as well as America. Yet, as an African American I am offended by any attempts to validate me economically or occupationally based on the color of my skin --- rather than the skills, abilities and expertise that I contribute to American society.
Before the ANELD observers misinterpret the facts and U.S. history, they must understand that Affirmative Action in the America was created and is used to address obvious systemic and historic barriers that devalued the socioeconomic promises made to Black Americans for their diverse contributions to America's development during and after our enslavement. Southern U.S. discrimination from Jim Crow laws throughout most of the 20th century were an additional barrier that validated the need for Affirmative Action laws. The vast majority of immigrants to France do not have the same foundation, legacy or history as Blacks in America.
In relative global terms, France is relatively and historically ahead of other nations in socioeconomic empowerment, equality and accountability for all of its citizens. To me, this is the true purpose behind ‘Liberté, égalité, fraternité’ --- though not perfect --- that we Americans can still learn from to advance beyond our own diversity problems.
The ethnically diverse officials of ANELD should use their energy and expertise to collect data on how and what every French citizen --- regardless of ethnicity --- is contributing to France's socioeconomic and cultural strength rather than their own ethnocentric goals. It has never been the objective of African Americans to be the exception within our nation. Instead, we fought for and pursued our right to be constructive contributors and full partners in America's advancement.
Pew Research Center Report:
http://pewsocialtrends.org/2011/07/26/wealth-gaps-rise-to-record-highs-b...
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/27/cose.wealth.divide.blacks.hispanics/
Really?
“If we want to improve the situation of minorities in France, we have to be able to evaluate it…One way to create awareness is to show people the numbers”.
I mean, really? You think people would be more positive towards (North) Africa immigrants if they knew the facts?
So you'll provide numbers on: crimerates, unemployment, birthrates, antisemitism etc. as well?
You really don't understand what you're starting, do you?
I think its a positive step.
I think its a positive step. Race relations are dire in France.
Racism is endemic. Pretending these people do not exist helps no one. Better to know how people are doing in terms of jobs, education, welfare, crime, wealth etc. It would also help to dispel myths. Bring it on.
France's motto, liberty,
France's motto, liberty, equality and fraternity are, in essence, the same as US. Nevertheless, it didn't stop discrimination in the US by many of its people nor the government. France can pose all it wants about being above that, but why not take a good hard look and see what's really there? Are they afraid of what the might find?
Racism alive in the United States
I am an African American and I just wanted to point out that in the United States it is difficult for an African American to hold executive possitions in business. In this case the foriegn affairs individual was greeting a team to discuse diversity, therefore it is not a suprise that the Afican American had a white assistant. Racism is still strong in America. It is just as difficult for us to find, jobs, schools, and even homes that are well within our means. We have to prove ourselves twenty-times over. Don't be fooled by the show Amricans put on when welcoming visitors.
Seems like a bad idea...
The last thing France should want to do is take after US policy on ethnic diversity. The way things are set up in the US, minority groups have far more influence than their population numbers warrant, while the average person of European descent is overlooked.
Diversity Data and Then What?
I'm a born and raised African American that grew-up in Harlem-NYC and Washington-DC. If there is one truth and fact that I have learned over the last 53 years is that ethnic statistics don't fundamentally improve anything for Blacks in the U.S. Over time the data is mostly used for nothing more than just political posturing and demographic distractions that haven't genuinely improved the socioeconomic lives of Blacks in proportion to the non-Black U.S. population.
It would be a step backwards for France to believe that having diversity statistics will enable them to effectively improve the lives of all of its citizens. U.S. politicians and diverse political activists have used all forms of data on the ethnic makeup of America for decades. Yet, only slow and marginal socioeconomic empowerment has occurred for most Blacks. Due to numerous competing forces from uncontrolled illegal immigration, instabilities in the U.S. economy, and major failures in our public education system, African Americans have to step faster and farther just to keep up.
No doubt, overt racism and covert bigotry have also been barriers in America --- and we still suffer because of the this. Nevertheless, regardless of the thoughts and actions of social morons, American Blacks manage to easily excel when the rules of citizenship and socioeconomic access is on an even field. As long as France focuses on the logistics of providing full and equal access to every level of French society, statistics will only play an abstract role in how the government best serves its citizens. Or, as we say in Harlem: talk is cheap --- action speaks.
No one, regardless of their ethnicity, is naturally disabled from succeeding in society when equal education and economic opportunities are available to them without barriers. France is on the correct path when it constitutionally and institutionally recognizes the equality of all of its citizens regardless of ethnic background. In the end, the only thing that matters is whether you are a loyal French citizen --- with loyalty to one nation and nothing more, and insuring that the rights of all citizens of France are protected and practiced without favor.
The only statistic that matters is how much effort, funding and resources are made available to effectively improve the lives every French citizen everywhere in France. As such, in relative global terms, France will continue to be relatively ahead of other nations in socioeconomic empowerment and accountability for its citizens. To me, this is the true purpose behind ‘Liberté, égalité, fraternité.’
How do I e~mail this report?
How do I e~mail this report?
Diversity
Do not start counting and doing what the US does. Relations are the worst they have been in the US for a long time. Everybody is pushed into groups and asking for jobs based on racial statistics. It won't help relations if people are put to the front of the line for jobs based on their race.
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